Offline Is Awkward and That’s Okay

Dr. David Fraze: Um, this, yeah, that's AI.
Um, Steven now has a beard, but I thought it was kind of cool.
And you see how serious they are about helping people.
Sometimes they all jump in and they're like, can we please help you?
And sometimes they help me.
Um, that does not look like me at all, but that's sort of suspend imagination.
There you go.
I think you're really going to enjoy the week.
I want to welcome to stage Carlos Perez and Christy Martinez.
Give them a hand, please.
Christy, you didn't get to see your picture.
You want to see it?
Look at this.
No, this is great.
Let me turn this on.
Look at that.
You really care.
Thank you so much.
you are you may want to turn your microphones on have you done that carlos why are you shaking
your head that is that not you kind of a little bit not bad the hair is spot on though isn't it
and the dark glasses was that too far i think it's perfect actually all right good awesome
i'll take that well we're going to talk about online wellness but uh i first want y'all just
kind of to talk a little bit about why we need a mental wellness week. We're getting close to the
end of the semester. Carlos and I, he voluntarily told y'all guys, I don't know if you realize that,
but we've been talking about this since the summer because we knew this was going to be a need at
this part of the semester, something really practical. So tell me why mental wellness week?
What do you see in this generation of students you teach?
Dr. Carlos Perez: I'll go first.
Yeah, I've been thinking about this ever since you and I spoke, Frase.
I think to have a week for mental health wellness, online wellness,
I think this is important because, and I'm going to mention a blanket statement,
and it's intentional, and feel free to disagree with me, Frase.
I think this is important because everyone, everyone on purpose, everyone carries something.
Everyone struggles.
Be it depression, be it anxiety, comparison, family issues, work issues, boyfriend-girlfriend issues.
I think everyone, everyone struggles.
And I think that's real.
And a week like this, for me, a week like this gives us a chance to validate and to understand and to bring awareness to this and to approach this conversation without judgment.
If everyone struggles, and I really do believe that, if everyone struggles, that's okay.
There's nothing wrong with struggling.
No, we shouldn't live a life of struggling, but I think everyone struggles every now and then.
I think that's okay.
So a week like this for me is to provide empathy, provide awareness, provide understanding, things that I think we all need to get through it.
Dr. David Fraze: And I totally agree with that.
One of the things that we hear over and over again and we actually prayed about is the burden that some people carry.
And we're like, oh, man, you don't have to carry that if we would just kind of visit with each other.
But especially in Christian spaces, we think that everybody has it together.
So if I let them know what I'm carrying, then I would be shunned.
But everybody carries something.
I totally agree.
What do you think?
Cristy Martinez: Well, and I think one of the struggles with that is when we share in community, that's great.
But then we leave that space and it's like, oh, well, now I'm still alone.
Now I still don't have the resources or maybe I don't know what to do with this information.
And so what I like about this week is that we're sort of creating multiple layers.
So the first layer is understanding what we're seeing.
And then by the end of it, you know, what are some tangible things within the community for our students to touch on, to grab, to be able to connect with?
And so I think that's why this week is really important.
Dr. David Fraze: That's awesome.
So thanks for the commercial, too.
This is great.
You're going to see this on Instagram.
You see every day has a purpose.
We're going to talk about online today.
Tomorrow we're going to talk about personal wellness.
And then we're going to talk about the question, how do I know when I need help?
on Thursday and it's going to be very practical. So thank y'all for being the very first people
to talk about this light topic and answer it in 20 minutes. Okay. Online wellness. Now my first
question to y'all is, are we overblowing the dangers of online activity? Because these students
have not known a world without the internet. Most of them have not known the world without
a smartphone. Now we know all the numbers and we look at all the stuff, but sometimes we are so
cool because did you start with flip phones? Nokia block? Put your mic. The Nokia block. You
Dr. Carlos Perez: are old. That's indestructible. Yes. Yes. Throw it across the room and it's fine. Did you have
Dr. David Fraze: a landline? Yes. That's crazy. We don't even have those anymore. So are we overblowing the
dangers of online why or why not well I think we first have to be able to define what dangers are
Cristy Martinez: so um when I was in college and I had my first cell phone um the the dangers were
well what are the dangers right like someone maybe scamming you or getting your information
telling you that they're a prince.
Dr. David Fraze: You're laughing.
Did you respond to that?
Cristy Martinez: I did not.
Dr. David Fraze: Okay.
Cristy Martinez: Actually, I got scammed when I was in college
by these people saying that they wanted to buy my books back from me.
And they were like, I'm going to send you a money order.
But I also need you to send it back.
It was a weird thing.
So that's what I thought of when I thought of dangers.
Like, oh, being scammed.
But then we also think of the interactions we're having
and thinking that they are anonymous or confidential,
that no one's gonna share a photo that we send.
And so I feel like those conversations happen
maybe regularly within high school, I'm not sure.
And so we think of danger, what does that mean?
And what does that mean specifically for you?
now we're understanding cognitive danger, emotional danger related to continued online
use, feeling like you can't put your phone down. I'm sitting here now, can barely see,
and I see like 12 people who are currently on their phones.
Dr. David Fraze: Dude, this is getting real up in here. Okay, good.
Cristy Martinez: And so I just think, wow, it's difficult to even be present in this moment. No shade. I mean,
No shame, if I were your age, I'd probably be doing the same thing.
But what does it mean to really be present?
Dr. David Fraze: Did you just hear that?
Yes.
It was probably an admin somewhere.
It's good.
Dr. Carlos Perez: Can I have the question again?
Dr. David Fraze: Are we overstating the online dangers?
Dr. Carlos Perez: Yeah, for me, I think it's yes and no.
Because I do think there's some good things that come with your digital footprint.
I mean, there are resources.
I think a lot of people have access to mental health help
with online information, online resources.
I think there's a lot of good things that come with it.
I do think we tend to, it becomes dangerous,
two things for me, which I can talk a lot about,
so stop me whenever you want to.
Two things that are dangerous for me.
When it comes to online use,
I think our dopamine hits are interesting,
And I think our algorithms can be dangerous too.
So let me start with the dopamine one first.
I think stuff like your TikTok feed, YouTube shorts, Instagram reels,
I think those are really dangerous because if we're scrolling through our TikTok
and if we're landing on a short and we stay on it for a second or two
because it's not interesting, we keep scrolling, we keep flipping
until we land on something that we like.
So our brain physiologically is looking for a tiny little dopamine hit,
and it starts to have the conversation about addiction,
being addicted to social media and that kind of stuff.
That gets dangerous for me because I think that also takes a hit on our attention spans.
If I can't look at a video for more than five seconds without wanting something else,
I think that seeps into our attention,
And I think that's really, really damaging the way we connect with each other.
Dr. David Fraze: But here's the pushback because the two guys are playing a game right there,
and they're two of my students.
Okay.
Dr. Carlos Perez: Ooh.
Dr. David Fraze: So I multitask, guys.
So I think multitasking is a myth as far as getting the very best out of your life.
Does that go back to the dopamine hits that we think we can do two things at once?
Dr. Carlos Perez: if if the few times we do something successfully in like two things at a time it's successful
we think we're good at it it's a dopamine hit and so we chase that start to talk about addiction
language so we chase that dopamine hit because we think we can multitask no i agree i don't i
Cristy Martinez: don't think that's a thing what do you what do you think um i think it depends on how your brain
is wired but is this like a natural thing or is this something that i've created so
I don't know I think it can be both like I am getting the hits by multitasking but also
what about things that are like a non-preferred task so our boys over here can play the game
and then also I love these people shout out they're my people but but you know we can do
that right but then when does that stop and now i'm taking a quiz and i'm struggling to focus on
the quiz because i need another thing to be distracting yeah i mean um when when i do
Dr. David Fraze: pre-marriage counseling i know y'all do that as well when you're talking to your significant other
and you're having a deep conversation and you're doing this and i go are you listening and they're
Oh, yeah.
How well does that work in a personal relationship?
Just looking at your phone instead of looking in the eyeballs
when you're trying to have a deep conversation.
It doesn't work very well.
Dr. Carlos Perez: From personal experience, if my wife is asking me if I'm listening
and I'm on my phone, like, that's getting serious.
Like, put it down, listen, because, yeah.
Dr. David Fraze: Well, I'm married to an LPC, and so I lose that battle all the time.
Shorts will be addictive.
We were talking backstage about a book by Jonathan Haidt,
which came out, I guess Today Show talked about it,
and when they get a hold of something,
it's what, six months to two years behind,
but it's the old dopamine studies that he found out
it wasn't COVID that ruined our social cues.
The thing that in every culture is the use of the cell phone,
that I could go to Europe and talk to a kid there,
and we could talk cultural language where that wouldn't have happened.
So that's a positive thing, but at the same time, during the rise of cell phones,
see if you all have seen this in your research,
the first time we were kind of doing pretty good with stress and anxiety, suicide ideation,
but then the number of apps that increased, stress, anxiety, suicide ideation began to rise.
Have you all seen that in your research?
Cristy Martinez: Yeah, it's called deaths of despair.
So that's like suicide, but then also addiction, drug addiction, alcohol addiction, and then like the liver shutting down because of that.
And so there actually has been a rise, which has drove down the U.S. life expectancy.
And so, yeah, that's valid.
Dr. David Fraze: Wow, that's crazy.
So one thing at Fuller, we call that the lunchroom,
and we're going to go to your practicals in a second,
that when we were kids, we had to sit in a lunchroom for 45 minutes.
Now it's even less.
But the first time from middle school to high school,
you got to pick your seat.
A traumatic time in our lives, but we had to do it.
But we knew it would be over.
All of the looks, all the weird conversations,
we finally found a rhythm.
When you look at the cell phone, there is a phone mode.
It's like if you get bullied in a lunchroom, I can leave.
If I get bullied online, it's like the lunchroom, you never leave it.
And I thought about that metaphor, and I can go back there for some of you who are older.
If you remember that lunchroom experience, that's kind of what having a cell phone is.
If I post something and I don't get likes, I'll repost.
We post at a certain time.
We do social media cues at a certain time.
So here it is.
great device also can entrench us. I love the discussions on dopamine. What can we do? What are
some positive things for the audience, for myself, for all of us to better control our online wellness?
Cristy Martinez: Well, I'm going to butt back a little bit on what you said. Do it. It's not that we can't escape
our phone we're choosing not to like if you are getting harassed or bullied or whatever like
you know you could delete stuff you could you know have a new email and open up a new account like
this idea of i can't escape it you can escape it and so why do we get there then why do we think
we can't the dopamine yeah right the the chemicals in our brain are being dumped in and it feels good
and it feels great.
And even fear is something that we can chase after.
Dr. David Fraze: Because our friends will know we put them on silent,
we put them on red.
They'll know that we've changed our account.
And now we got to go to school and do this
and face people in public.
Cristy Martinez: Right.
Dr. David Fraze: I haven't had to because I walk across this campus.
What do I do?
I don't have to have a hard conversation
or even take the risk of saying,
how are you doing today, Christy?
You're like, doing fine, Dave.
That's awesome.
But that's weird to some students to have that kind of interaction.
That's a great point.
Dr. Carlos Perez: I hate starting phrases like this, but I remember when.
Dr. David Fraze: Oh, my word.
Dr. Carlos Perez: You're so old.
I know.
I know.
If Fredenberg is in here, he's going to roll his eyes at me.
Dr. David Fraze: Bag phone boy.
Dr. Carlos Perez: By the way, it's Fredenberg's birthday today, if I'm not mistaken.
Wow.
Yeah.
So anyway.
He's really old.
I remember when we didn't have cell phones, though.
I remember when we just hung out and sometimes didn't talk to each other.
And we're just sitting and just maybe doing nothing.
Sure, that might be awkward today,
but me personally, Frase,
I think it's awkward to sit next to someone
when two people are staring at a screen
and they're right here.
I think that's awkward.
I think it's awkward when people walk around with their
beats and one of them is off the ear.
I don't know, that's awkward to me.
And so the fact that we are, that we're easily,
I'll put it this way.
I think we use our cell phones as our crutches.
And it soothes us in times of uncomfortableness.
Dr. David Fraze: So how do I get rid of it?
I mean, give me something to say, help me with my addiction.
Dr. Carlos Perez: Okay, this is what I tell couples that I work with.
If we're having a hard conversation, if we're having like an argument or something uncomfortable,
I tell people, if you're feeling uncomfortable, just push past that just a little bit.
Put your phone down, sit with someone, talk to them, look at them.
If that's uncomfortable, if that's awkward, push past it just a little bit.
And that little bit actually goes a really, really long way.
Dr. David Fraze: Good.
Cristy Martinez: What was your question?
Dr. David Fraze: Help me.
How do I help with online wellness?
Give us something practical.
He's saying push back, push through the awkwardness.
What would you suggest?
Cristy Martinez: I think legitimately doing a detox.
which sounds wild, but to clean out the system,
a.k.a. your dopamine intake,
challenging yourself to shut down at certain times,
to not pick up your phone, put your phone in another room,
like deleting social media off your phone for an entire month,
or, you know, whatever that would look like for you,
I think we're at the point, and maybe you specifically, you can attest to this more for yourself,
but are you at the point where you could leave your phone for an entire eight hours and you would be okay
and you would be living your best life, or does it make you cringe to be without your phone after 15 minutes?
Are you feeling some type of way?
And so only you can determine how extreme you need to go.
But I think recognizing that is the most important thing.
Dr. David Fraze: That is so good.
I had an administrator at this district I worked with before coming back to LCU that says a person's cell phone,
if you take their cell phone up, is the equivalent of a strip search today because of all the information on there.
And they were telling you how you do that because students will go crazy for all these different reasons.
It's attached to who they are, the streaks and all that kind of stuff.
But I think to have a legit detox would be incredible.
And then have time for homework, things of that nature.
But they would also just have time to sit down and feel the sun, the West Texas wind.
I mean, whatever they, but they could have that moment to push into the awkwardness.
We talked about a new book coming out.
I think it's Find Your Real Self or True Self.
That's going to be a real interesting read.
But the guy I heard today said, the hour after you wake up, the hour before you go to bed,
and dinner time, no cell phones to start there.
Do you think that's maybe a beginning spot for some people who are first hour, last hour?
Dr. Carlos Perez: dinner time i tell people if if you miss an email if you miss a text message
it's it's fine like there's nothing wrong with that like i'm not that important we're not that
important so if someone doesn't talk to me for an hour i think it's fine like unless it's life
or death someone's gonna get a hold of you but if you don't see your email for an hour if you
don't see your tiktok feed for that i think it's it's fine nothing is gonna happen so yeah hour
before bed, hour when you wake up. I love the no dinner, dinner with no phones. I love that a lot.
Dr. David Fraze: That's actually a really good idea for me. Have you all seen, I know we're almost out of time,
but you go to your counselors, right? I mean, this is what you study. Does it bother you when
you go to restaurants and you see families that are wasting an opportunity to do this and they're
all on their phones? They give a kid an iPad and it's like a kid's supposed to be yelling
and thinking, I don't want to eat this.
I mean, it's humor for us older parents, right?
Like, beat them.
I mean, it's kind of fun to watch,
but it's kind of sad to me that they're missing a moment
to say, how was your day?
Is that on?
You did not die.
We see you.
Hello.
There we are.
Cristy Martinez: That was really loud.
We carry Uno everywhere we go, so we, like...
Dr. David Fraze: Is that a disease or a card game?
Cristy Martinez: Both.
it can infiltrate an entire family scoot back carlo she has uno yes uh so we'll take we have a
like a bunch of different uno games and so we'll play uno while we're waiting for our food to come
and so um that's how we interact as a family um yes it does bother me but also i know i can't
control what anyone else is doing you know well thank you for controlling yourself that's a great
Dr. David Fraze: model. This is just a taste. I think it's awesome. We have two things. One, be aware the dopamine
hits and you're going to have a feeling, an actual physical feeling of uncomfort when you decide to
raise your eyes and have a conversation, right? That's not abnormal. And then we're saying,
I'm going to blame it on y'all. Christy and Carlos are saying, do without your phone a little bit
more, right? Little detox. I'll go ahead and join you with that. Have a detox and see what happens.
Any other final word? Anything you're burning to say about online wellness?
That's awesome. I don't know what just happened there. I love your body language. Carlos,
Dr. Carlos Perez: anything else? No, I think that's good. I think we need to, I think, thanks for having a week
like this. I think we need to talk about these things and reflect on these things because I do
think it's needed. And I think ultimately it's for the better. So thanks. Awesome. So here we're
Dr. David Fraze: going to, we're going to try this. Can I have the house lights up, please? Don't leave yet.
This is going to be great. This is totally off the cuff. Look to the person next to you and
Introduce yourself.
Look to the person on the other side and introduce yourself.
Turn around and see the person you've been sitting next to
and just stare into their eyes for a moment.
Introduce yourself.
We're just making it real weird.
Christy, it's your first time on stage.
I would like to say,
I would like to give you this honor
of saying the magic words.
Cristy Martinez: You are dismissed.
Dr. David Fraze: There we go.